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 Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring? 
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
ChiliDog wrote:
dan_rules wrote:
If Gravemind did overthrow AR, and AR is just AI, then at the end of halo 2, when Gravemind demands to know all of which Cortana knows, maybe she's more willing, or actually forced, to do so than what people may think. Maybe, if Gravemind is a part AI, then as such a powerful being, could he not outrank, overthrow, other AI, like the flood physically do to others? ... Just a thought... but I think it's very possible Gravemind took out AR...


I think you may be on to something. If he is part AI then he may be able to coerce all the information from Cortana (Location of earth, the halos, humanity, The covenant). This may be why we hear GMs voice interlaced with Cortanas in all the videos. We knew that from Halo 2 GM used chief as a distraction on high charity. Now that the chief realizes that GM is the enemy and not to trust him, GM could be using Cortana as a puppet to influence the chief while gravemind sits back and bides his time.

First, to kill the above (apologies to those letting their brain juices work, I just don't want wild interpretations coming from poor memories and lack of due diligence) -- GM doesnt 'demand to know all of which Cortana knows', he says:
Gravemind wrote:
But my mind is not at rest, for questions linger one. Now I will ask, and you will answer.

It ends with Cortana saying "Alright, shoot." That's it. So, what is that ONE question? No idea. But i assure you it wasn't "Boxers or briefs?"
On to the point of my post -- anyone ever read the book Tuck Everlasting? I think it is required reading in grade school. Anyhow, quick synopsis: family drinks fountain of youth, never dies, is depressed at never dying. Gravemind sounds like he is feeling the same thing. -- "I am a monument to all your sins." "...my mind is not at rest..." "Fate had us meet as foes, but this ring will make us brothers." -- Sounds like GM is saying "Kill me."
Adding to that point, GM = Flood, not machine. AR = AI = Machine. Flood does NOT take over machine. Period, end of point.


Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:26 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
Gravemind's actual quote is "...questions linger on..." Looks like the Halo story page's transcript has a slight error in it...


Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:08 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
"questions linger ON"... not one.. haha, he has more than one question... aanndd the way I see it, personally, he's not saying "soo... if it's ok with you, i mean, if you don't mind... ya think you can answer some questions for me.. iiff that's not too much trouble...". I see it more of a "i really don't care what you want, AI... i'm gunna ask, and you're gunna tell". When you're browsing a website, whatever... typically you have a question that you want answered, and I just see it as GM using cortana as a browser. She didn't seem, again, in my opinion, all too negligent against answering, either. It seemed like she was pretty ok with playing 21 questions with the guy. And Pak, I wouldn't be so quick to call anything, any speculation, absurd. While there is, of course, a consistancy to be expected, this is a videogame, comic, novel world, set far in the future where nothing is writ (except by bungie) and and is completely sci-fi. Bungie can throw anything they want out there, and who can tell them that it's impossible, that it's absurd...


Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:46 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
dan_rules wrote:
And Pak, I wouldn't be so quick to call anything, any speculation, absurd. While there is, of course, a consistancy to be expected, this is a videogame, comic, novel world, set far in the future where nothing is writ (except by bungie) and and is completely sci-fi. Bungie can throw anything they want out there, and who can tell them that it's impossible, that it's absurd...


It wouldn't be logical to introduce a plot hole where none was needed. I am playing the meta game here, and assuming the writers working at Bungie are competent. If they really needed some way to forcibly extract information from cortana, they could simply hack into her system. After all, gravemind has the memories of a shipfull of marines and every person on the covenant flagship at his disposal. Certainly ONE of them has the technical knowledge to rape information from an AI. Hell, they could even introduce extortion. If she doesn't answer his questions, he pulls her proverbial plug. There is absolutely no reason the writers would introduce such a huge plot device as "Gravemind can interface directly with electronics." This is why I feel justified in using the term absurd.


Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:27 am
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
As long as we're speculating, what if the overriding entity is a Cortana--not the singular and original Cortana, but one of the copies she made to outwit the Covenant ship's AI in First Strike (I think it was that book)? The 'he' would be a problem, but it could be that Cortana has convinced AR that she outranks him by using a security code she picked up from being inside of the first Halo's forerunner computer network (but not High Charity's because when the multiple degraded copies of herself were made, that hadn't happened yet) which AR would identify as belonging, if used appropriately, with a 'he.'

The thing that this helps explain is the flash of images we saw in the video: of 343 GS, of Master Chief, of the Halo firing, among other things (the other things she could've picked up from forerunner archives). She saw those things, and they were shown to us in the context of Iris. The only other explanation for those images is that it was basically a commercial and frankly, I'd rather give Bungie more credit than that (fingers crossed)!

What's interesting about this if it were to be the case is that since the copies of Cortana were described as changed, degraded, inferior, they could be different from her in crucial, unpredictable, and potentially evil/conflicted (or at least chaotic) ways--rampancy with a twist.

Just a crazy thought, that's why I put it here in the 'speculation' section. Do with it what you will. :)


Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:35 am
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
i don't know how much this has to do with the current topic, but i decieded it was better than making a new topic

i was thinking
gravemind has control of the halos transportaion matrix, its the same as the teleportation in 343 guilty sparks in halo 1

he's either infected forerunner, or just a flood with control of the matrix, but how?
pentint tangent i wager, that or he's a forerunner himself


Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:38 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
crymsonnite wrote:
i don't know how much this has to do with the current topic, but i decieded it was better than making a new topic

i was thinking
gravemind has control of the halos transportaion matrix, its the same as the teleportation in 343 guilty sparks in halo 1

he's either infected forerunner, or just a flood with control of the matrix, but how?
pentint tangent i wager, that or he's a forerunner himself


I strongly disagree that Gravemind has control of the teleportation system used on the Delta Halo, despite having control over 2401 PT. Several factors lead me to believe this: 1) No record of any Flood form being teleported 2) Even if GM had control over the grid I doubt he'd be able to teleport himself anywhere, he's much too massive. 3) Even if he did have control of it why bother commendeering (sp?) smaller Covenant and Human vessels for transport, when he could just as easily teleport Flood forms onto the larger ships a la Cortana transporting the Chief into the Truth and Reconciliation at the beginning of Keyes in Halo CE.

As for GM being a Forerunner himself, I vaguely recollect something to that effect being brought up on the Halo Story Page, however, I think that was passed over in favor of GM being a highly evolved "Keyes Blob".

EDIT: Just realized how wrong I was. GM DID have some control over the teleportation grid because that's how he sent Master Chief on board High Charity and the Arbiter to that location near the Control Room. Wow, where's my memory gone.

2nd EDIT: I was thinking why he didn't transport any Flood via the teleportation grid, and the only explanation that I've come up with is that the grid cannot transport Flood-infected organisms.


Last edited by failedparachute on Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:15 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
I just figured Gravemind was a highly-evolved Flood Brain form. He could possibly be the first flood or like an Alpha Male in a pack. However these are just wild speculation theories. Flame my ideas as much as you want, I'm just throwing out things from the top of my head here.


Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:31 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
I don't know, I'm liking the GM was a forerunner, because he was alive for millennia, meaning he was around before the Humans and the Covenant, and that just leaves the Forerunner, also it would take a forerunner brain for GM to be so smart, because he didn't take over Regret's body when he dropped down there, and I think that one of the top prophets has to be plenty smart.

So yeah I think GM being an infected forerunner is starting to make sense


Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:46 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
Orpheus wrote:
I don't know, I'm liking the GM was a forerunner, because he was alive for millennia, meaning he was around before the Humans and the Covenant, and that just leaves the Forerunner, also it would take a forerunner brain for GM to be so smart, because he didn't take over Regret's body when he dropped down there, and I think that one of the top prophets has to be plenty smart.

So yeah I think GM being an infected forerunner is starting to make sense


It'd also contribute to the idea that a lot of the forerunners being infected was a reason for creation of and firing of the installations.


Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:14 pm
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