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 Humans aren't forerunner? 
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
supremely wrote:
yeah also, um 343 chose an elite to be his reclaimer in H2.


What? When?


Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:58 am
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
Arbiter


Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:55 am
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
No.. he didn't.


Also, the Forerunner did not create the flood, the server 4 video proves this.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:09 am
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
Quote:
but when you think of alien species, elites/humans have same basic body type/shape/mass


Ummm, elites are considerably larger than humans.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:14 am
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
Quote:
Has it ever been considered that perhaps the Forerunners (btw did they call themselves the forerunners?) was similar to the covenant in that it was a multi species alliance? What if species we don't know of now were very advanced and slowly began to colonize new worlds. What if they stumbled upon a few primitive species such as humans, elites, prophets... (maybe even the flood in an early form???). What if they figured that all galactic life should have a say in existence, should have a chance to live. What if they invited all our species (or chosen memebers) INTO their advanced society, to learn. Maybe they were very peace loving creatures...? They sounded like they had tried MANY ways to combat the flood before the rings and were VERY hesitant to use the rings...

OT: Plus any species as advanced as them would first try to diplomatically reason with a warlike species. Violence would only come after diplomacy failed, but what if by then it was too late. All it would take would be one overrun world for the flood to spread like wildfire. Think about it, if you infest pilots with navigation charts and send infection forms everywhere, it would be almost impossible to stop. What if they realized that the eventual outcome of this war with the flood was the destruction of all species, built the rings, shielded the weak and then activated the rings. /OT

food for thought? Or do I need some?


hmm that makes a lot of sense. perhaps the forerunners were either a collection of races (or just a singular race) that saw potential races growing up around them and decided to watch their development.

As an alone race they might have been rather lonely and could have just wanted companions, or otheres to share the universe with.

anyways, so they probably watched the development of the elites, brutes, prophets, humans, grunts, etc. and then they noticed the flood which looked like a race that looked like it was dying out and decided to protect it and help it grow back into life, ie the halos. But then the flood began to attack them, destroying their kind helpers who had let them survive. to the horror of the forerunners they found that the flood had done this before to other races, and that they had only saved a monster. "not all life deserves a chance". like an eternally kind caretaker they then chose to save the races they had been watching, and began to fight the impossible war against the flood.

like a mother saving her child the forerunners died shielding the humans and covenant, seeing their potential. and so the covenant died and gave humanity, those who they saw fit to continue the universe, the ark so that they could keep the flood at bay. but the prophets grew jealous of the forerunners decision, and that is why they decided to form a covenant of all the races not given the honor of the ark and were so determined to keep the humans out of the covenant (ex. many times the elites and grunts have revered the humans tenacity, wanting them to join the covenant. but the forerunners ultimately said no.)


it seems to make sense to me.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:54 am
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
Baratos wrote:
I interpreted it as surprise that humanity didnt adopt the Forerunner term for their species. For example, in GOO we learned that Engineers were called Huragok by the Forerunners. I imagine that Guilty Spark would have been shocked if he were reading Engineer history, and noted they never mentioned what the Forerunners called them. I think Guilty Spark, after reading the history notes, realized that humanity was totally ignorant of the Forerunners.

I feel that this also explains why GS was so nice to the Heretics in Halo 2--he realized that everybody was ignorant of the truth about the Forerunners, and that he needed to educate everyone from scratch. I imagine he took the Heretics aside and walked them through exactly who they were, what Halo really did, and how it would be a really bad idea to touch the Flood samples. Sadly, they appeared to ignore that last bit of advice.

One last bit of proof for my idea: Guilty Spark mentioned that "[the Heretic Leaders] edification was most enjoyable." Edification means enlightenment. So GS did indeed try to explain himself this time around.

I'm not sure that he ever expected the Covenant to know about the Halos and their purpose. In Conversation from the Universe, he says:

"A primitive, hegemonizing swarm calling itself The Covenant has landed on Installation 04. Apparently seeking something specific. Exploring! Meddling! I've seen it all before. They'll record what they see and they'll leave."

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Conversation ... e_Universe

To me that indicates 343 believed the Covenant didn't know what they were doing (hence, "meddling"). On the other hand, at the end of Halo 2, when asked by Miranda where remote activation would occur he says, "Why... the Ark, of course", and the way he says the line indicates that this should be obvious to her.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:01 pm
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
FireFly wrote:
Baratos wrote:
I interpreted it as surprise that humanity didnt adopt the Forerunner term for their species. For example, in GOO we learned that Engineers were called Huragok by the Forerunners. I imagine that Guilty Spark would have been shocked if he were reading Engineer history, and noted they never mentioned what the Forerunners called them. I think Guilty Spark, after reading the history notes, realized that humanity was totally ignorant of the Forerunners.

I feel that this also explains why GS was so nice to the Heretics in Halo 2--he realized that everybody was ignorant of the truth about the Forerunners, and that he needed to educate everyone from scratch. I imagine he took the Heretics aside and walked them through exactly who they were, what Halo really did, and how it would be a really bad idea to touch the Flood samples. Sadly, they appeared to ignore that last bit of advice.

One last bit of proof for my idea: Guilty Spark mentioned that "[the Heretic Leaders] edification was most enjoyable." Edification means enlightenment. So GS did indeed try to explain himself this time around.

I'm not sure that he ever expected the Covenant to know about the Halos and their purpose. In Conversation from the Universe, he says:

"A primitive, hegemonizing swarm calling itself The Covenant has landed on Installation 04. Apparently seeking something specific. Exploring! Meddling! I've seen it all before. They'll record what they see and they'll leave."

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Conversation ... e_Universe

To me that indicates 343 believed the Covenant didn't know what they were doing (hence, "meddling"). On the other hand, at the end of Halo 2, when asked by Miranda where remote activation would occur he says, "Why... the Ark, of course", and the way he says the line indicates that this should be obvious to her.


Good point. What I find iteresting was the "I've seen it all before" part. Who else has been to the Halos before the Covenant?

I think he was nice to the Heretics because they were'nt like the other Covenant groups, they understood what the Halos were (I don't know if they knew this solely because of 343GS, or because of their own research, I don't remember any definitive evidence proving either argument). I bet the Heretics found out that the Prophets were lying on their own, and 343GS only proved the point.


Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:58 pm
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
I really don't think the monitors are as smart as we believe they are. Think about it. If the forerunner in their strife with the flood have figured out that they had some sort of sway over AI's/Monitors (as seen by GM and 2401 PT) Then wouldn't it make sense that they programmed the monitors to believe that they have all perished during the first activation of the halos. 343GS only says the word "forerunner" ONCE. every other time he refers to them as "my creators". Now if his protocol states that halos activate = all flood food dies then he would assume that its true. GS cannot physically confirm that every forerunner that existed has perished.


Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:30 am
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
So isn't this question essentially answered with the unlocking of server 5?

Towards the end of their long battle with the Flood, the Forerunner discovered another, newly developed, lifeform – humanity.

"The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched.
They may hold answers to our own mysteries."

"{/What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things./}
{/But what fortune that we still had time to save them./}"

And decided to make them the recipients of their legacy, after they and all other sentient life had been wiped out. Humanity would be saved by the Ark: "The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives", and when they were ready, it would provide them with the answers: "I promise you the answers lie in the Ark", allowing them to reclaim the Forerunners knowledge and become Reclaimers.

"If the plan fails,
{/And the adversary succeeeds./}
it will remain an enigma forever
{/With no-one left to reclaim it./}"

From GoO:

She bent closer to the last pod and ran her fingers over the forerunner icons along its side, translating as she did so: " 'That which must be protected…behind the sharpened edge of the shield…beyond the reach of the swords…for the reclaimed.' No, that’s not quite the correct meaning."
"Reclaimed…" Ash echoed. “Maybe 'Reclaimer'?"
"Yes. A title. Specifically, an honorific. (p. 337 - 338).

Unfortunately, it seems humanity never discovered the Ark, so they never found out the truth (and whatever treasures the Forerunner saved for them), something GS must have been unaware of, which is why he was confused by MC's apparent ignorance about the purpose of the Halos.

I suppose the real question now is, what is the Ark's intended purpose?

{/But perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose./}


Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:07 pm
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Unread post Re: Humans aren't forerunner?
Either way, it sounded like the Forerunners had no choice, at the time, but to accept the annihilation of themselves in order to ensure the security that whatever knowledge they had about anything and everything wouldn't be consumed/absorbed by the Gravemind. It is about the same as the UNSC issuing the Cole Protocol: a countermeasure that ensures the safety of Earth and all human colonies from being located and destroyed by the Covenant. Also, by isolating us from the Flood, it's possible (with the Ark) they want humans to continue (the fight against the Flood) where the Forerunners had left off.


Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:11 pm
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