The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Wild, speculative theories born from the communications with AdjutantReflex.

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Omega Hunter 9
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by Omega Hunter 9 »

Well, that sounds like a nice idea, however I have one of my own that disproves yours. If the Flood was a bio-engineered virus to prolong life, the first thing that any good geneticist would do is put in a 'back-door' in the Virus DNA to stop it if anything goes wrong in the same sense a hacker might for his virus. The Forerunners are just so advanced, I can't see them disregarding such a small safety protocol.
failedparachute
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by failedparachute »

To that I say that "Life finds a way." Perhaps, like has already speculated, and not just in this thread, as I've already brought up the theory that the Flood started as a way for the Forerunners to prolong their lifespan in the Gravemind thread, and that the evolved and whatever backdoor or fail-safe that was "built-in" was negated by the course of nature. I will say no more except that once again I feel I'm repeating myself and that people should use the search button [/forum-nazi].
Lurono
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by Lurono »

Good point. Part of the problem here is we don't KNOW for sure how the Forerunner even acted... It's possible that they became cocky with their technology and would disregard seemingly little problems... Or, again, it's possible that the Flood weren't created by the Forerunner. If only Bungie would give us SOMETHING useful regarding the Forerunner... We really don't know enough!

Also, we are having to assume that the Forerunner even had a similar system of logic to us... It's possible that things that make sense to us (like safe-guards during experiments) don't make sense to them. Or, in reverse, something like killing all life in the galaxy made sense to the Forerunner, but it makes no sense to us...

Edit: Yeah, I wasn't thinking Jurassic Park :P
yakaman
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by yakaman »

To all of this "Forerunner created Flood" discussion, I would simply re-ask the question: If you are going to wipe out, and then subsequently restore, every single sentient life form larger than a pig, in the entire galaxy to kill the Flood, why in the name of all that is holy would you retain samples of it in your lab? If the Flood was simply a fire that had to be put out, and once extinguished would never return, then you wouldn't retain samples. Once destroyed, the galaxy would remain safe for eternity. Right?

From Episode 1:
KNOW THAT ENERGETIC AND TENACIOUS AS LIFE IS IT HAS AN ANTITHESIS JUST AS POWERFUL
This suggests that the Flood is something as fundamental as life, as natural as life. Nowhere in the Haloverse have I ever observed a single reference to the word "created" or anything like it associated with the Flood. Not in the books, not in the games, not in Iris, not in ILB, nowhere.

From Episode 2:
It has done this before elsewhere
Yes, I've heard the interpretation that this indicates it tried to contact them before, or whatever, but that's bunk. This suggests that the Flood is no remote phenomena, no singular occurrence. This, combined with the quote from Episode 1, might lead one to the belief that wherever life arises, the Flood eventually emerge as well. Wherever life emerges, death emerges to balance it. To counter it.

From Episode 3:
Who has the right to live? The light with the will to create me? Or dark with the will to consume? Sometimes might is right, and sometimes the lamb must submit to the lion
Consider this and the quotes above as well. The entity that is speaking in this final quote is attempting to resolve a philosophical issue; does something good (light) have a more divine right to exist than something bad (dark)? If the cold, merciless, machinery of the universe is natural selection; if the universe exists simply to create the most powerful natural biological mechanism, should this entity stand in its way? Should it allow the light to win(read: avoid losing) the chess match by wiping the board clean?

All of this together points me towards the conclusion that the Flood (i.e. death) is as naturally emergent as life, and just as powerful (if not more so). The Flood is natural. This provides for a more epic scale to the conflict that the standard Frankenstien morality tale, no?

Why did the Forerunner preserve Flood on their Halos? To give us a head start. To allow us to pursue a solution before the Flood appeared. Because they new, inevitibly, the Flood would return.
Maimbot 9000
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by Maimbot 9000 »

Yes. Both Marathon and Myth dealt with seeking balance rather than outright victory/destruction, and I have no reason to think Halo will be any different. I think I've already babbled in another thread (or maybe even this one) about how I think the Forerunner wanted balance as well--studying the Flood, maybe preserving Flood structures on the Halos, trying to find a way to achieve harmony with this anti-life. Finally, getting nowhere in negotiations with the Gravemind, and finding no way of slowing the Flood's spread, they decided to maintain balance simply by wiping the galaxy clean, leaving some life (us, the Covenant races) and some anti-life (the Flood). And they hoped we'd figure something out.

Thanks a ton, Forerunner.
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by supremely »

if that is so then the sentance "Know that a thousand other plans were tried and failed" fits because perhaps they tried everything else but activating the halo's but- failed.
And to further yakaman's quote in episode 3:
"Should I pursue a pyrrhic choice?
And rethink alliances?
And choose a new philosophy?
Right or might?
Truly I do not know
But you will, soon enough".
they knew what legacy they were leaving behind. but i wonder if they knew or cared to whom they were leaving it, the covenant and humans regarded halo and forunner information so differently.
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by Lurono »

Well, as far as the preservation of the Flood goes, again, it's hard to say what the Forerunner were thinking... To truly understand that we have to think like THEM not US. I've heard a lot of people point out that we still keep samples of various diseases around for research purposes, even though we may have eradicated it... Maybe the Flood for research was a similar deal? What confuses me is why would they make it so easy for the Flood to escape (at least the game makes it appear easy)? You could compare it to a careless parent not putting child-proof locks on their cabinet with the poisonous cleaners in it.

And then with the Flood being natural... It IS wholly possible... The only problem is that how could something that uses hosts so quickly survive long enough to even evolve to the point that the Flood are at? Whatever planet they originated on would have been lifeless (at least as far as potential hosts are concerned) VERY quickly. Too quickly, imo.

It's still interesting that they would kill all potential hosts AND keep the Flood around. And it's interesting that they "onveniently" missed us and the Covenant with the Halos...

I do like the idea that they kept the Flood as a reminder, or a lesson. Perhaps, somehow, they didn't know where the Flood homeworld was and were unable to totally guarantee that the Flood would stay dead? Just an idea... Always fun to add fuel to the fire :mrgreen:

Edit: :idea: Perhaps the Forerunner are the ones that are extra-galactic, and not the Flood. That could help to explain why we are receiving messages AFTER the Halos fired... Kinda off-topic I guess... I just wanted to use this :arrow: :idea: and this :arrow: :arrow:

Hopefully this idea will give someone else a new idea :P
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by Frogwart »

If by extra-galactic, you mean the Forerunner originated (or took off and hid just before the Halos fired) in another universe, I brought this idea up several weeks ago in another thread, now long lost to the depths of these threads.

I never did get any takers on that idea (that I can recall), but it's still one of my favorite ideas. If, in Ghosts of Onyx, for example, (spoilers) there can be a hidden world within the 13-pronged device (similar to the device in the announcement trailer) that the cast of characters escape to, why can't there be a parallel universe or two that hold the keys to the Forerunner's origins?

Maybe the Forerunner just came from their universe over to our sandbox, made a mess and tried to clean it up. When they saw it was too big a job for them, they tried to cover it up by completely destroying it (well, as much as they could before it was too late for them to safely get out of Dodge). Then they split back to their Carney-holes, maybe learning they shouldn't mess with things that aren't theirs to mess with in the first place...
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by Lurono »

Yeah, decent sounding idea. I am kinda doubtful, however, that Bungie would do it. Alternate universes seem to be too far out there for most people atm... What I meant exactly was more of from just another galaxy. I'm also suprised I missed a theory on the Flood here. I must have been slacking that week :oops:
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Re: The Flood: Natural or Artificial?

Unread post by supremely »

Lurono wrote: The only problem is that how could something that uses hosts so quickly survive long enough to even evolve to the point that the Flood are at? Whatever planet they originated on would have been lifeless (at least as far as potential hosts are concerned) VERY quickly. Too quickly, imo.
i dont think its a problem, i mean them using up hosts so quickly moves them very quickly to the top of the food chain, survival of the fittest. and then if you take them as a type of virus like.. some one said earlier, then they evolve from what they consume...and they consume alot... im going in circles :( but it makes some kinda weird sense to me lol.
Lurono wrote: It's still interesting that they would kill all potential hosts AND keep the Flood around. And it's interesting that they "onveniently" missed us and the Covenant with the Halos...
the covenant wasnt the covenant at that time though i think? they probably missed alot of speices, i mean the covenant is made up of species they basically absorb... and who knows how many they've wiped out before like they're trying to do to us.
Frogwart wrote: Maybe the Forerunner just came from their universe over to our sandbox, made a mess and tried to clean it up. When they saw it was too big a job for them, they tried to cover it up by completely destroying it (well, as much as they could before it was too late for them to safely get out of Dodge). Then they split back to their Carney-holes, maybe learning they shouldn't mess with things that aren't theirs to mess with in the first place...
if this was the case i dont think they'd be so~ regretful and thoughtful in their messages. if this was the case it seems to me that they wouldnt leave behind any messages. they'd just kick over their sand castle and go back. I prefer to think of them as originating from this galaxy, as a people who tried to play god and paid the ultimate price.

and im not even getting into the little warp-place the remaining spartans go in GoO... its too much for my tiny brain to handle.
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