Log2_Transcript Discussion

[Maimbot 9000]

We know the Halos have only fired once before:

Not true. This installation has a successful utilization record of 1.2 trillion simulated and one actual. It is ready to fire on demand.

From the Halo 2 level "Gravemind."

[scapermoya]

have they said that earth isn't a shield world (or for that matter, the moon)? if the halos went off in the past, which apparently they did once, it would have wiped out all the life in the galaxy, right?

well, life here on earth has been evolving (if this turns into a discussion about the merits of evolution, i'm going to kill myself) for ~4.2 billion, give or take a few hundred million. that sets a lower bound on how long ago that one firing of the halos took place. unless we are the shield world, etc.

[sassafras]

Ok, if everyone is now running with the assumption that the Earth was somehow saved from the massive Halo firing by being a shield world, or being on the ark or whatnot, why then is everyone ignoring the covenant?

I fail to see how numerous different species could have arisen and evolved into the massive covenant if they had to start from scratch 100,000 years ago. My guess is, something else is going on that we're not picking up on.

[scapermoya]

Ok, if everyone is now running with the assumption that the Earth was somehow saved from the massive Halo firing by being a shield world, or being on the ark or whatnot, why then is everyone ignoring the covenant?

I fail to see how numerous different species could have arisen and evolved into the massive covenant if they had to start from scratch 100,000 years ago. My guess is, something else is going on that we're not picking up on.

excellent point, i overlooked the corollary to my argument about earth. is it stated anywhere explicitly that the halos were built 100,000 years ago? that wouldn't make ANY sense based on pretty much everything in the game.

[Maimbot 9000]

Joe Staten said the Halos fired about 100,000 years ago, in his interview with HBO's Halo Story Page. I'll have the exact quote in a minute.

Edit:

HSP: 343 Guilty Spark says, "Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed." How much time is he referring to?

JS: 100,000 years. Give or take.

From here: http://halosm.bungie.org/story/staten102204.html

Second interview here: http://halosm.bungie.org/story/staten083106.html

Which gives the supporting quote:

HSP: When did the Forerunner die off - in human years?

JS: Inscrutable alien beings with problematic ethics never die... they just fade away. But if what you're asking is: when did the Forerunner take their "Great Journey," that would be about 100,000 years ago - around the time our Homo Sapien ancestors decided to migrate out of Africa. Mind you, that's a hotly debated paleontological theory.

[spartan117]

well if the ark was being made a 100,000 years ago it could have been because the halos were being prepared to fire. therefore supporting the fact that it may not take a long time to build something such as the forerunners did.
maybe the ark wasnt even finished. and if it was there must be a surviving forerunner in our midst...

[scapermoya]

i'm sure this is a widely-held belief, but i haven't seen it anywhere on here so i'm going to say it. i haven't been following the theories and speculation very closely, so forgive me if i'm just repeating something obvious.

seems like bungie really wants us to take this biblical allegory and run with it. so the forerunners built the 'ark', put all of the species on earth into it to protect them from 'the flood', or at least from the halo deathray that was to wipe out the flood. it is entirely conceivable that the forerunners built a lot of these arks, for each of the planets with life on them (takes care of the covenant thing).

[rewind]

If you are saying that "The Ark" in Africa is an "Ark of Deliverance", then it may have been placed in order to preserve some symbolence of life here while the Forerunner could escape their fate elsewhere (or bite the bullet as well), with the ark truly acting the part and preserving some of each species...but, there is a hole in that theory as well, for if you accept this particular chain of events, it must be said also that there would need to be a similar construct that would have aided in the preservation of the Covenant species as well, as they are equally (read: "as complex") as evolved as humans...

Another point...if the Forerunner knew what they were doing (the assumption is that they did, but that may not be the case) then who would be left to research the Flood left in captivity on the ring worlds (Halos) (From the 1 firing they obviously did not wipe out the captive Flood). They knew full well that if it got to the point of completely irradicating all life (of sufficient bio-mass) that it was a pretty dire sitution, and at that point you would think that they would rig the detonations to also kill off the captive Flood as well, but they didn't, which is very odd. Which [seems to me] means that they were some how thought that they were fully prepared to preserve some sort of advanced life that would have to be considered "Flood-Food"...

In other words: Why purposely preserve something so dangerous when that very thing causes you to destroy nearly all intelligent life in the galaxy just to keep it from spreading? Or was it by fluke that these would have been excluded? (I truly don't think this is the case, but including the other alternative adds more points of possible discussion [and decension])

Another point: Were the Ring Worlds [purposely] made to exclude their interiors from the blast radius (very possible based on shape), and if so, why did no forerunner stay behind on the Ring Worlds to continue the study of the Flood? Or...did they stay behind, and just not survive...

[rewind]

i'm sure this is a widely-held belief, but i haven't seen it anywhere on here so i'm going to say it. i haven't been following the theories and speculation very closely, so forgive me if i'm just repeating something obvious.

seems like bungie really wants us to take this biblical allegory and run with it. so the forerunners built the 'ark', put all of the species on earth into it to protect them from 'the flood', or at least from the halo deathray that was to wipe out the flood. it is entirely conceivable that the forerunners built a lot of these arks, for each of the planets with life on them (takes care of the covenant thing).

Well...biblically there were 2 arks:

1) The first, the Ark of Noah, an Ark of Deliverance from the Great Flood (ironic or symbolic...you decide), protecting life from annihilation.
2) The second, the Ark of the Covenant (again, ironic or symbolic) which contained the two broken tablets that the original ten commandments were written on, smashed when Moses came down from the mountain and found the Hebrews engaged in worship of false idols, among other things. Armies fell before the Ark, and when ever any would gaze directly upon it...well, bad things happen to those who mess with it (or God for that matter)...lets put it that way.


As an "interesting note" matter of point...one of these arks was actually mentioned, off hand mind you, in this weeks "Weekly Update" by Frankie:

"...things at Bungie on the 13th are pretty exciting in the “OMGZ, this roller coaster is getting faster and there’s a ginormous light in front of us and it’s melting our faces like we’re in Raiders of the Lost Ark" way.

The Ark in "Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark" was the Ark of the Convenant...


edit was spelling

[scapermoya]

If you are saying that "The Ark" in Africa is an "Ark of Deliverance", then it may have been placed in order to preserve some symbolence of life here while the Forerunner could escape their fate elsewhere (or bite the bullet as well), with the ark truly acting the part and preserving some of each species...but, there is a hole in that theory as well, for if you accept this particular chain of events, it must be said also that there would need to be a similar construct that would have aided in the preservation of the Covenant species as well, as they are equally (read: "as complex") as evolved as humans...

there isn't a hole in the theory if you read my whole post. i said that it is totally conceivable that the forerunner built many of these arks. what if the forerunner were everywhere, studying all life? that means they could have easily built one of these ark protectors for each species they came across (including all of the precursors to what is now the covenant)

Another point...if the Forerunner knew what they were doing (the assumption is that they did, but that may not be the case) then who would be left to research the Flood left in captivity on the ring worlds (Halos) (From the 1 firing they obviously did not wipe out the captive Flood). They knew full well that if it got to the point of completely irradicating all life (of sufficient bio-mass) that it was a pretty dire sitution, and at that point you would think that they would rig the detonations to also kill off the captive Flood as well, but they didn't, which is very odd.

i don't think it's that odd. they left AI there, and the flood was locked up. i think it makes more sense that the forerunners EXPECTED to come back and continue their research, but something UNEXPECTED happened. if the arks could hold us, they could certainly hold the forerunner too. but they seem to be destroyed, or at least vanished.

In other words: Why purposely preserve something so dangerous when that very thing causes you to destroy nearly all intelligent life in the galaxy just to keep it from spreading? Or was it by fluke that these would have been excluded? (I truly don't think this is the case, but including the other alternative adds more points of possible discussion and decension])

i don't think there are many flukes with the forerunner, they are too advanced. they were left intact because the forerunner expected to return. "reclaimer" anyone?