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 Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring? 
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
i don't think the PT would outrank AR. AR would clearly have more responsibilities being in charge of an entire array of halos. PT is just a monitor of one installation. That would be like a private telling a 4 star general to nuke everything.


Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:52 am
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
mnemesis wrote:
shamanistcrage wrote:
it is mentioned somewhere that "he is machine" correct me if i am wrong. and i dont think gravemind is a machine.


However, in another communication AR refers to the other as a "life". So, something that can be viewed as both a machine and a life.


This holds to my theory that this new threat is a higher ranking Forerunner AI being commandeered by Gravemind.

Everything is within protocol.
Sounds just like a Forerunner AI doesn't it? But who's really behind this message?
I bet it's Gravemind using the AI to try to convince us that everything is OK, everything is normal, it's all under protocol, this is supposed to happen.


Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:36 am
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
Yeah, it would seem more logical that this is a monitor being controlled by Gravemind. Gravemind seems to be incredibly powerful, so it would still hold that AR was overpowered by him - however the way we've been spoke to by it - "Be seeing you," for instance - has been very monitor-ish... Rather ominous, too. Rampant monitor?


Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:41 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
I think that it is likely that it is a moniter being controlled by gravemind. It speaks more like a moniter as Coweh said, and here is a theory that could work. Each Halo has a moniter, and possibly multiple AIs to keep the system in check. The AIs are probably assigned ranks, but the moniters, being given a physical "body", would be higher ranking then the AIs. But AR, if he is the head AI of the Ark, which is who I think he is, is higher ranking than even the moniter's of the Halos, but the Moniter of the Ark is even higher ranking than him. Gravemind somehow remotely gained control of the Moniter of the Ark. I don't know how he did this, but it is most likely possible, seeing as he could teleport the Master Cheif and the Arbiter, and also make it onto High Charity at the end of Halo 2. And the moniter of the Ark could have "deleted AR", as Guilty Spark showed the power to enter databanks and such in Halo, on The Maw.


Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:10 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
Sorry, should have moved this into Spec yesterday...


Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:01 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
Ooch, my mistake, sorry Mnem!


Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:11 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
Alec T wrote:
Gravemind somehow remotely gained control of the Moniter of the Ark..


Well, Gravemind was created when the Flood reached a certain population/mass/whatever... So it is quite possible that there are multiple Graveminds, and one of them is here on Earth.


Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:13 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
GhaleonEB:
Quote:
I also think he is Gravemind, for a number of reasons. Some are listed in the OP. Another is the similarity used in these phrases:

Gravemind – Halo 2, Level 12: Chapter 01
Quote:
There is much talk, and I have listened, through rock and metal and time. Now I shall talk, and you shall listen.


AdjutantReflex
Quote:
The stain on his hands will not wash.
That damned spot as old as rock and time.
What has he learned in Eon’s slumber?
I think that wording is too similar to not be a clue.



I hope this hasn’t been said before… mods, please take the appropriate action, if it has.

Ghaleon, I agreed with you, when first I read these quotations. I certainly agree with your emphasis, that when AdjutantReflex (AR) paraphrased this statement, he was referencing Gravemind (GM).

However, I believe AR is referring to two entities in his quotation:
1. An entity not known to us, but known to AR. One that AR refers to in the third person familiar (he/him).

2. An entity familiar to us – GM.

When I reexamined the emphasis in AR’s quotation, I saw the following:
1. The quote is a play upon Lady MacBeth’s “…out damned spot…” soliloquy. There seems to be consensus, on A.B.O. that this is the case. Read more here: http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/damned-spot

2. “The stain on his hands will not wash.” In this case, the entity familiar to AR is complicit in some atrocity. Hence, the stain upon his hands:

Gravemind - Halo 2, Level 12: Chapter 01
Quote:
I? I am a monument to all your sins.


I believe this quotation is proof that Gravemind is the spot/stain upon “his” hands. Guilt that cannot be washed away. Guilt that AR’s “he” perceives to be visible and known to all those around him. Essentially “undeniable” or “irrefutable” guilt.

3. AR then goes on to give this stain a name – Gravemind – by referring to the stain as “That damned spot as old as rock and time.”

This leads me to believe that AR’s “he” is complicit or guilty in some way and Gravemind is the absolute proof of that crime in “his” eyes. Therefore “he” can’t be Gravemind.


Chilidog:
Quote:
i don't think the PT would outrank AR. AR would clearly have more responsibilities being in charge of an entire array of halos. PT is just a monitor of one installation. That would be like a private telling a 4 star general to nuke everything.


From Dictionary.com
Quote:
“adjutant” - "military officer who assists superior officers," 1600, from L. adjutantem (nom. adjutans), prp. of adjutare "to give help to," from ad- "to" + juvare "to help, give strength, support," probably from same root as juvenis "young person”

“reflex” - Physiology. noting or pertaining to an involuntary response to a stimulus, the nerve impulse from a receptor being transmitted inward to a nerve center that in turn transmits it outward to an effector.


I don’t think AdjutantReflex is a “higher” compound entity. I think AR is a more basic entity. One meant to function on basic “impulse” (like a computer’s POST process, as mentioned elsewhere). That is to say, a reflex.

His purpose is (was?) to function (assist) another entity (those of us he wished to keep informed, during the countdown) without question, fault or analysis. Perhaps he was meant to systemically initiate (POST) the countdown, inform his superior of its initiation and shut down. Part of his reflex was to protect the information he was disseminating from the threat that made necessary his activation (reflex). Hence the cloak and dagger posts.

In order for AR’s superior to understand his messages, AR’s superior must have the “encryption key”. In this case, I think the key is Gravemind’s speech in Halo 2, Level 12: Chapter 01 – “Gravemind”. It’s within that speech that we get the “rock and time” clue.
Now, according to the Halo 2 level transcripts on HBO, six entities were privy to Gravemind’s “rock and time” speech:

1. Gravemind, himself. As I believe Gravemind is the guilt personified by “his” spot/stain, I don’t believe AR is trying to inform Gravemind of the countdown.

2. 2401 PenitentTangent. Given that the events of AR’s posts revolve around Earth and that 2401 PT is the monitor of a distant fortress world, I don’t believe 2401 PT is “he” in AR’s posts.

3. Cortana, because she was with Spartan 117 during the speech. On the surface and assuming the language is as simple as it seems, Cortana cannot be “him”, for obvious reasons. While I can't support the theory, I believe Cortana is the communication link, further supporting that she isn't "him". She seems to be the only entity involved in the conversation with the capacity to transmit this encryption key between the parties involved. But I just don't know how or why, right now.

4. Regret (Covenant Hierarch and High Prophet). As far as we know, Regret was never released by Gravemind and is still located on Installation 05. This leads me to doubt whether AR intends to communicate with him.

5. The final two entities are Spartan 117 and The Arbiter of the Covenant. AR might trying to assist and/or inform either of them.


Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:28 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
Quote:
Quote:
There is much talk, and I have listened, through rock and metal and time. Now I shall talk, and you shall listen.


AdjutantReflex

Quote:
The stain on his hands will not wash.
That damned spot as old as rock and time.
What has he learned in Eon’s slumber?


Rock and metal and time. Let's see, Gravemind was essentially hidden under the crust of halo after being created and all his memory would be of the forms that survived for millennia, starving under ground and hiding from the sentinels.

This new entity (I believe) exists on Earth and since his 'outranks' AR, so it is safe to say he is within forerunner AI ranks. So being a forerunner AI and existing for a Millenia on Earth it is also safe to say he is the Ark's Monitor, uploaded into Bungie's network.

The Machine would then be in the Ark for nearly 100,000 years, which is buried. This would mean that he would have been in a similar physical position as Gravemind, as well as mental (see below.)

His name has not been mentioned, but he rules the Ark and would have most likely been the most connected to the original halo firing giving him a name that will be quite sorrowful (or angry). Especially given the fact that he would have had to run protocol to slaughter billions of his masters and creators. So, like all Monitors he wouldn't be able to forget; to put the actions of 'following protocol' behind him, driving him insane. Or 'Rampant' as it were.

So no I don't believe that Gravemind will be in this ARG at all, but perhaps a more malevolent force will. This will be quite a twist for Halo 3... the AI that you need to help fire the rings is Rampant. Thoughts?


Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:51 pm
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Unread post Re: Gravemind - Once Malevolent, Now Stirring?
GLuebben wrote:
GhaleonEB:
Quote:
Cortana, because she was with Spartan 117 during the speech. On the surface and assuming the language is as simple as it seems, Cortana cannot be “him”, for obvious reasons. While I can't support the theory, I believe Cortana is the communication link, further supporting that she isn't "him". She seems to be the only entity involved in the conversation with the capacity to transmit this encryption key between the parties involved. But I just don't know how or why, right now.

4. Regret (Covenant Hierarch and High Prophet). As far as we know, Regret was never released by Gravemind and is still located on Installation 05. This leads me to doubt whether AR intends to communicate with him.

5. The final two entities are Spartan 117 and The Arbiter of the Covenant. AR might trying to assist and/or inform either of them.


Remember, this ARG is happening in 2007. Unless Cortana, Regret, Arbiter, etc., went back in time, they are not involved.


Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:39 pm
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