Log2_Transcript Discussion

[Yavanna]

When the Forerunners decided to build their seven Halos it must have taken a great deal of time and planning (granted we cant really say how long it took the Forerunners to complete all the halos, I am fairly confident that the mega-structures were not simply erected over night) This obviously suggests to me that there was never any sudden "Flood Onslaught." The Forerunners seemed to have some degree of ability to react to the discovery of the Flood.

So it would make sense that when the Forerunners first encountered the Flood they were not threatened and thought that they had the flood all figured out. Hence the level of surprise as seen in "We may have been fools to think that all intelligence follows the rules we've set." It seems the "rules" amounted to the notion that the flood behaved like a virus as suggested by "The Flood is no idiot parasite, No simple infection to be cured and cauterized." Only later did the Forerunners come to realize that the flood functioned on a higher level than a virus, and that the flood "has a center, a Mind." Its is also clearly apparent that the Forerunners at some point realized they had made a catastrophic error in their approach to dealing with the Flood. So far a big question everyone seems to be pondering lies within the reason behind WHY the Forerunners chose to "study" the flood.

There are a good number of possible explanations as to why the Forerunners decided to "study" the flood. But the part i want even more specific answers to are in regards to the event that occurred that drove the Forerunners to use their "weapons of last resort". It wouldn't make sense that the Forerunners would build shield worlds such as Onyx and not have time to reach them in time before the halos fired. It looks to me like something REALLY bad happened and it happened SUDDENLY and unexpectedly. I am really looking forward to what the other 3 servers/episodes are going to be able to tell us about what fate befell the Forerunners.

[scapermoya]

maybe gravemind? i feel like being embedded in a halo allowed it to investigate it, and having found out that it was designed to destroy him, he is pissed. i think the word "cauterize" refers to the firing of the halos. whoever is doing the talking, it sounds like a critique of the method used to contain the flood. the tone of "The Flood is no idiot parasite, No simple infection to be cured and cauterized" makes it seem like the cauterization won't work. or maybe its more of a 'flood rights' activist?

i agree that the halos were built over a long period of time, and they were clearly designed with failsafes in mind. that's the whole reason why the ark needs to be found in the first place, because cortana set off ared flag by compromising one of the halos.

forgive me if im repeating anyone else's theories without citation, im justa ramblin right now.

[yakaman]

Nice discussion going on....

It wouldn't make sense that the Forerunners would build shield worlds such as Onyx and not have time to reach them in time before the halos fired. It looks to me like something REALLY bad happened and it happened SUDDENLY and unexpectedly

When considering outbreaks, and their pace, I think it is important to remember that it would likely have started slow, and then progressed to a tipping point, after which expansion and collapse would be exponential. But I wonder if you people aren't on the right track - the Forerunner, lulled into a sense of complacency, bring the Flood into their castle, behind their walls.

Then the Gravemind sets his plans in motion, and the Forerunner realize what the Flood really is. The question is, how long would it take for a galactic empire to fall? Even with FTL drives and such, the sheer scale suggests at least years. Time enough for a hail mary, time enough for the most technologically advanced species in the galaxy to build some rings, an Ark, and some shield worlds.

Maybe?

I cannot wait for those next servers. This has been really satisfying so far.

[Yavanna]

Going off the deep-end an heading directly into hypothetical "what if's," i ask the question:

What if the Forerunners were developing improved ways to combat the flood?

as supported by "And that discovery gave us a way to fight it" it appears as if the Forerunners didnt see their initial offensive approach to dealing with the flood as adequate.

If we assume that the Covenant mimicked the Forerunners weapons technology and didn't change it much, it could be surmised that prior to the discovery of the flood, Forerunner weapons were largely plasma based (which we all know through Halo gameplay experience that plasma based weapons were not an effective means of defeating flood) It appears as though the beam weaponry used by the sentinels was a relatively new means of fighting and containing the Flood. The Covenant never (so far as we have seen) implicated the use of sentinel beam type weapons. This is to say the Covenant had yet to discover the said beam type weaponry.
A likely reason being that the Forerunners only used the sentinels at areas where they planned for flood containment, ie. the Halos and the Shield-Worlds such as Onyx

Ghosts of Onyx Major Spoilers:
[spoiler]what better way to protect your final place of refuge than to surround it with planet comprised of sentinels equipped with the best form of weaponry known to combat the flood[/spoiler]

So now what if the Scenario is painted like this: The Forerunners develop weapons directly engineered to kill the flood but come to the conclusion that it is not enough to completely eradicate the Flood. So they build a network of seven giant rings, an undetermined number of Shield-Worlds, an an Ark designed to rid the galaxy of flood. In an effort to avoid the complete destruction of their race, the Forerunners continue to study the flood for another alternative method to defeat them besides falling back to their Shield-Worlds and killing everything else in the galaxy deemed to be "flood food" (perhaps activating the halos under a condition that would only target and destroy the Flood and Flood based entities) However the Forerunners discover the flood have a center and a mind and realize their assumptions about the flood were incorrect. After which something happened that caused the Forerunners to activate the Halo Network leaving no time to seek shelter in their Shield-Worlds.

I realize that there are considerable inconsistencies and a number of loose ends in this theory. But i think its a fun theory to think about nonetheless.

[Admiral Whitcomb]

Going off the deep-end an heading directly into hypothetical "what if's," i ask the question:

What if the Forerunners were developing improved ways to combat the flood?

as supported by "And that discovery gave us a way to fight it" it appears as if the Forerunners didnt see their initial offensive approach to dealing with the flood as adequate.

If we assume that the Covenant mimicked the Forerunners weapons technology and didn't change it much, it could be surmised that prior to the discovery of the flood, Forerunner weapons were largely plasma based (which we all know through Halo gameplay experience that plasma based weapons were not an effective means of defeating flood) It appears as though the beam weaponry used by the sentinels was a relatively new means of fighting and containing the Flood. The Covenant never (so far as we have seen) implicated the use of sentinel beam type weapons. This is to say the Covenant had yet to discover the said beam type weaponry.
A likely reason being that the Forerunners only used the sentinels at areas where they planned for flood containment, ie. the Halos and the Shield-Worlds such as Onyx

Ghosts of Onyx Major Spoilers:
[spoiler]what better way to protect your final place of refuge than to surround it with planet comprised of sentinels equipped with the best form of weaponry known to combat the flood[/spoiler]

So now what if the Scenario is painted like this: The Forerunners develop weapons directly engineered to kill the flood but come to the conclusion that it is not enough to completely eradicate the Flood. So they build a network of seven giant rings, an undetermined number of Shield-Worlds, an an Ark designed to rid the galaxy of flood. In an effort to avoid the complete destruction of their race, the Forerunners continue to study the flood for another alternative method to defeat them besides falling back to their Shield-Worlds and killing everything else in the galaxy deemed to be "flood food" (perhaps activating the halos under a condition that would only target and destroy the Flood and Flood based entities) However the Forerunners discover the flood have a center and a mind and realize their assumptions about the flood were incorrect. After which something happened that caused the Forerunners to activate the Halo Network leaving no time to seek shelter in their Shield-Worlds.

I realize that there are considerable inconsistencies and a number of loose ends in this theory. But i think its a fun theory to think about nonetheless.

Cortana: "The covenant are immitative, not innovative."
all covvie tech is forerunner tech. which was probably intended for use by the humans, seeing how we are a more intelligent species, just dont have access to the tech

[System Failure]

One thing about the spread of the flood that many people is that this problem was completely un controlable. I remember at some pepople were saying if the Forerrunners are the most technilogically advanced race, then why didn't the just find another way to stop them. But think about it the number of infection forms starts of in squares, however, after a combat form loses most of its mass or is damaged, it is turned into a carrier form, which releases of average four infection forms. The is an insane amount of increase in its potentential, to infect others.
Just think how would it be possible to beat an enemy that uses everyone of your fallen soilders against you and knows everytghing that they did about you. Thats probably a good reason not to go into a sheild world. The flood probably knew where they were, and therefore the Forerrunners saw there was no longer a point in running.

[SpartanSeraph]

I know that the outbreak would have to be catastrophic, but one thing always makes me wonder: how long did it take to build the Halos? The whole system (7 rings, who knows how many shield worlds, the Ark) seems very complex for a quick fix. It seems like it would take a while to build and coordinate all of that, as well as a large number of laborers (Forerunner or droids - maybe even slave species?). If it would take all that time to build the Halos, why didn't the super-advanced Forerunner find a better solution during that time?

That is, unless they had something like total matter conversion. Then I could see the halos as a quick fix.

[scapermoya]

there isn't evidence that the halos were built as a last resort, or very quickly. i think its much more likely that they were built as a precaution, way ahead of time.

[JCCricket]

i agree with scapermoya.
The halos seem to be a precaution, just incase something went wrong. Almost like a human CDC building, they are built out of the way, and if something goes wrong and gets released, the place gets saturated in disease killing stuff. I think the halos are a bit more extreme (anihalate all living species, therfore depriving flood of food and the threat of flood being eliminated, so the forerunners can come back and restart), but generally the same principle. Like alpha halo built around Threshold, where the study of the flood could be contained and if an outbreak occured, it could be blown away.

[sarge2552]

this theory may be a bit out there but ill throw it out,

from the line "it has done this before", maybe its talking about 2 halo activations. (stay with me on this) say the forerunners discover the flood, and decide that its a potentional threat, so they build the halos, the shield world, etc. the flood start breaking out, so they say "oh crap, lets go", the forerunners that remain jump into the shield worlds and activate the halos. they stay in there for however long they want, or feel safe (long enough for the flood to starve.) then they come out and begin there research of the flood under more controlled circumstances in the halos (hence the flood being locked down so well.) but somehow some flood survived or they broke out again, and decided to strike fast and hard this time so there food wouldnt be instantly killed, the forerunners then have no time to get into the shield worlds, and they just decide, "ok, lets end this, its suicide time", 100,000yrs later, here we are

and yes, i know there are quite a few holes that can be found in this, but thought id throw it out there just to get rid of it as an option, or let it be discussed