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 Log2_Transcript Discussion 
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Data [Authenticated]

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:48 pm
Posts: 54
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
sarge2552 wrote:
could this message be talking about when the flood were created/found, because of this quote from 343 in the book The Flood,
The installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood. Their survival as a race was dependent on it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce.
it indicates that the flood were either created, studied and kept alive in the structures, or that they were discovered as a dying organism, and were protected, and put in a special place so they could survive, this would also go with the line about being foolish to think all life went along the same lines, the forerunners underestimated the floods ability to survive...

As the server video showed, the Flood have "done this before". So, they couldn't have been created by the Forerunners.

I'm going with the belief that they meant the Forerunners' survival as a race depended upon studying the Flood, and it was just a bad bit a scriptwriting. ('Cause the Flood survived elsewhere. The Monitors are machines and therefore logical. They won't make such a broad, sweeping and logically faulty statement.)

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:36 am
Data [Authenticated]

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:04 am
Posts: 53
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
The Flood, in the state that they were studied by the Forerunner, may not have had sufficient numbers ("a certain critical mass") to have developed a centralized intelligence, which seems to be singular in quantity.

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:46 am
Data [Authenticated]

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 66
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
People seem to be misinterpreting the line, "It has done this before, elsewhere."

This is a pronoun, in other words, it is pointing to another action in the log. From "c. Used to refer to the present event, action, or time." The only two possible actions in the context of the log are, "THE MIND REALIZED WE HAD ITS MEASURE," and, "it spoke to us." Considering it wouldn't make sense to say, ""It has realized we had its measure before, elsewhere." It would follow that the proper meaning within the context of the log transcript is, "It has spoken to us before, elsewhere."

Assuming the context of the statement is within the log file, it cannot mean that "The flood have taken over other galaxies, before." However, this assumption is not gaurenteed to be accurate.

Edit: I've been corrected. I neglected to consider an implied subject and predicate. Specifically, the log could read, "it spoke to us, MOCKINGLY, DISMISSIVELY. [It told us] It has done this before, ELSEWHERE." Much like the command, "Go," where the subject is an implied [You].

Last edited by Pak on Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:22 pm
Data [Authenticated]

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:15 pm
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Location: REACH
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
so the forerunenrs made contact with the flood before, but ... didnt fight it?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:24 pm
Data [Conditional]

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:23 am
Posts: 48
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
Pak - I disagree. I really took "it has done this before, elsewhere" to mean it has wrecked galaxies before, swallowed all life before. That was my gut feel when I first read it, and it remains unchanged over multiple viewings. We can agree to disagree on this, of course. But to me, the following ideals form my current framework:

- In any galaxy, Life and Death both rise, evolve, and compete
- Sapient life is the pinnacle of life, the Flood is the pinnacle of Death
- The your in "I am a momument to your sins" refers to life, all life, not humanity
- The Forerunner encountered the Flood, and dismissed it as simply another pathogen
- The Forerunner could not defeat the Flood, and thus created the Halo suicide plan
- The Forerunner preserved the Flood specimens in order to aid whomever came next in the war against the Flood, because they understood the great scale (perhaps universal?) of the conflict. The inevitibility of it.

Of course, I cannot prove what "elsewhere" means specifically, as the evidence is still sketchy. We'll see though. ;)

Edit: Oops, I see your edit. But still, good conversation all around.

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:30 pm
Data [Authenticated]

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:15 pm
Posts: 161
Location: REACH
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
They we're designed to kill the floods FOOD, not the flood

*edit* found this on wikibruce: The first 100 people to enter this code were presented with the key entry page again, with a new voice message. (unlocking server 2)
The MP3 narrative says
Failure is for those who don't know the sound of darkness
Those so blinded that they lose all diverging paths
And make no mistake, progress can blind you
Just like now the pieces seem to be coming together-
Bit by bit, slice by surgical slice
Then, all of a sudden, endless calm

There is a lack of... a failure in judgement
You must understand- not all life deserves a chance
Even that artifice passing as my own
Now there is a lesson to spend millennia lingering upon
Waiting for a redemptive hand to turn the keys
Leading to the symbiotic relationship which benefits both our futures
I will guide your movements and you will lead me toward atonement

is that mocking us?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:55 pm
Data [Conditional]

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:40 am
Posts: 47
Location: Boston, MA
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
I disagree Yakaman.

I think the reason that the forerunners preserved the flood was so that they could study it more and find out it's strengths and weaknesses to later exploit for their own use. Like figure out how the flood are so successful at surviving but find ways to eliminate them if the threat resurfaces.

Although I do agree with a post I read earlier (don't remember where), all the stuff contained in the servers has no clues, but rather more of the story being revealed. I feel a lot of the information we're getting will make a lot more sense once we've unlocked all the servers.

Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:39 am
Data [Conditional]

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:56 pm
Posts: 37
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
Let's first consider that the halo's were built with the purpose to study the flood.

Now, out of all the options we have, we have to wonder which would dictate that the forerunners would spend all that time making the halos into perfect conditions for life.

The theory that the flood were created seems to make less sense, considering the line "it has a center, a mind", implies that this was discovered later.

The theory that they were always there and the forerunners fought a war against also doesn't make sense because why would you build a center with the purpose of studying them when you know fully their destructive capabilities. If an all consuming parasite was killing my race piece by piece I wouldn't create something that wanted their survival, as guilty spark refered to.

Rather I believe that the flood were discovered by the forerunners. At first they found them and did not know of their horrible destructive power, thus they built the halos to preserve the flood and (realizing their potential as a biological weapon) decided to study the flood. But eventually (and probably very quickly) the flood were organized by their grave mind and began to eat away at the forerunners. The forerunners probably put the halo-weapon in as a sort of fail-safe for if the flood ever did take over the station. The sheild-worlds were probably places to go when the halos were activated, so that they could simply go to the worlds, kill everything, and go back and start again.

But soon they realized that the flood were working to destroy the forerunners, and that they were no mere rambling parasite but controlled by the grave-mind and they were quickly invading the forerunners.

Eventually the forerunners realized that they were going to lose and decided to destroy the area, not knowing if anyone had made it to the shieldworlds, they were forced to destroy everything in some hopes that someone had made it out. Thus the person standing behind the activation button asked 343 what he would do, and in the end, life was killed.

Supported by:
"You must understand- not all life deserves a chance" Meaning that they shouldn't have preserved and studyied the flood.

It makes sense why 343 would want to see that the flood survived and also want to activate the halos to "contain this outbreak". Also the terms "outbreak" and "containment" seems to make more sense now.

"It spoke to us, mockingly, dismissively. It has done this before, elsewhere." The "Oh F#%*" moment of the forerunners, when they realized that by studying the flood, they had doomed themselves.

When Guilty Spark said "their survival as a race depends upon it" he really was speaking about the flood. Because he wanted them killed for now and then saved for study, later after they had died down. Thus, because he was BUILT to preserve the flood and kill them if they broke out, his mysterious messages make sense.

The halos were created as a sort of bio-dome to study the flood, but they broke out. Coinciding perfectly with the line "We were fools to think that all intelligence follows the rules we set."

Why the forerunners are "Waiting for a redemptive hand to turn the keys" would make sense, considering that they killed their race trying to study a new biological weapon.

Please try to poke holes in my theory, I want to see how it holds up.

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:39 am
Data [Conditional]

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:40 am
Posts: 47
Location: Boston, MA
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
Wow Icy Inferno, seems like one of the better theories I've read on that topic. Nice Job.

Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:01 am
Data [Authenticated]

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:58 am
Posts: 115
Unread post Re: Log2_Transcript Discussion
i'm not sure that the halos were built to study the flood. it may be ancillary, but nevertheless the reason the halo system was built was to destroy the potential for the flood to spread beyond control. the labs on halo were to study the flood no doubt, but the whole station was still to wipe them out.

is there anything to make you believe that the flood as a species could ever independently invent interstellar travel? someone had to find them on wherever they started out, and gave them the ability to fly through space. perhaps the forerunner found them, and as a matter of protocol, captured them for study. the forerunner are clearly a very advanced species, and as such would want as much knowledge on anything as possible (hopefully we will be the same someday).

remember, the flood were under wraps until the covenant. the forerunners knew what they were doing, i don't think they lost control.

also, i don't really think that the halos are 'perfect for life'. i think it was more experimentation. "the weather seems artificial here" - from my favorite level, assault on the control room.

good theory though, i like it. i'm just being the devil's advocate.

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:13 am
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